"How to fight the sin of pride, especially when you are praised.

Some thoughts on pride and humility by John Piper off of the Desiring God website.

Theology Survey (8): What did Jesus think?

Question: What did Jesus think about theology?

#1: I don’t know what Jesus thinks about theology. Theology was termed by Plato somewhere around 400 years before Jesus was born. I don’t know if Jesus intentionally ever came across the term, but I know his purpose was to be the gatekeeper for God’s sheep (John 10: 7-18) and the vine for God’s branches (John 15: 1-8.) So, I suppose he knew a little about theology.

#2: Jesus speaks against teaching false things about God, so having correct knowledge of God/scripture is critical. Jesus also warned against thinking knowledge of scripture equaled salvation.

#3: "You diligently study the scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." Jn 5:39
Some times I wonder if Jesus get tired of our constant bickering over him. He continued to point to himself over and over. Jesus looked at how the Pharisees and the other religious leaders had interpreted scripture (theology) and rebuked them for lording it over the people. He for sure thought it was important though, earlier in the same passage Jesus says that the Pharisees have neglected important parts of the law.

#4: He thought theology was important, but He also thought it was too extensive. I always see Jesus explaining God and His attributes in simple ways that people can understand. Jesus was always telling people about God, and he was doing it in a manner that they could understand. Simple theology was important to Jesus.

#5: I don’t think it was necessary for Him to think about it personally because He had a full understanding of God. But He seemed to get pretty heated when the Jewish people (i.e. the Pharisees), who had studied the Scriptures all of their life, clearly “missed the boat”, specifically when it came to the Messiah.

#6: He thought that the study of God was only important so long as it resulted in a system of beliefs that result in action.

#7: I think one of his main purposes was to lead us to truth. So in that sense, I think Jesus was all about theology. I also see how he opposed those who made theology their God and not God their God.

#8: Jesus is the great Teacher. His instruction is what we base our doctrine on. He is who we study. Our relationship with our personal savior comes from studying his words and his actions. He came to reveal truth, to save sinners and to give us new life

#9: Jesus spoke of his nature, the nature of God, and the nature of the Holy Spirit frequently. He did so because He wanted people to understand the nature of God (being triune in nature with Christ and the Holy Spirit). So the study of God and His character is of utmost importance to Jesus. Jesus taught as one who had authority and He also amazed people at His understanding of the Character of God! He spent the majority of His time teaching and referring to the nature of God, so it is a logical deduction that He found it to be important!

#10: I think that He wants people to learn about theology so they can have a firm foundation of faith.

#11: Big fan. He would demonstrate the Father through the things He did….thus giving us a theology of the Father.

#12: I think that Jesus probably didn't think about theology. I mean, if He was God, then He fully knew God, and He didn't have to really think about what He thought about God. But I do think it was important for Jesus to make sure that others understood the true God.

#13: This is perhaps the best question in this survey and I have no idea how to answer it.

Theology Survey (7): Necessary for Salvation?

Question: Is correct theology necessary for salvation?

#1: Yes. The definition of theology is the study of God and how he relates to the world. If you ask yourself, “What is God’s relationship to me?” and answer isn’t biblical (ie: he’s a higher power that created the world but isn’t involved in my life) then you don’t get saved.

#2: If by theology you mean a holistic system of beliefs, then no. Jesus says that he is the way to salvation, not theology. Now we can sit around and talk theology about what that statement meant, but he is the center of salvation. If there is only one "right" theology punching tickets to heaven, it could be a lonely place.

#3: No. If it is, then I’m a goner. But that’s not to say that we need to get certain things “right”, namely that Christ is the only hope for my hopeless attempt at goodness and being near God. There are only a few essentials….and I think God has a wide mercy, allowing for error in thinking to a great degree. This does not, however, take us off the hook in our responsibility to have sound theology.

#4: No. The only part we must take to heart and believe in for salvation comes from the Bible. The New Testament where Jesus answers that question by his teachings, his death, and his resurrection.

#5: Theology, or the study of god/God, is certainly necessary for salvation. How is one to form a system of beliefs based upon the Bible if not by first asking those bigger questions about who god/God is, and coming to some sort of self-realization?

#6: Theology concerning salvation and what you believe about Jesus- yes. If other stuff is a bit off I don’t think it leads to hell. When we stand before God, I really believe we will be judged on two things 1) If we knew Christ as our savior. 2) What we did with the gifts and blessings God gave us. Good theology leads us in the direction to believe these things more but it isn’t the theology itself that gets us into heaven.

#7: A correct theology of salvation (saving grace, and Christ’s role in it) is necessary. Outside of that, I don’t believe so, but I couldn’t be sure.

#8: I don’t think so, I think that initially you just need to accept Jesus, then the rest of it will come along as you grow and mature in faith.

#9: John says that “whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life..” and Paul tells us that” the gospel is “the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes.” That is all I know.

#10: That depends on a person’s belief of salvation. If we are saved by our profession of faith in God, then yes. If we are saved by God’s sovereign will, then no.

#11: Correct theology is necessary for salvation because if it’s incorrect, then wouldn’t salvation be as well? I don’t really know.

#12: As important as it is, I would say that the answer to this question is NO! Not necessary! I would cite the thief on the cross who was saved…there is no apparent theology present…only confession and belief/faith (Rom. 10:9). This is not a means to disregard the importance of theology and doctrine, but a simple account and exposition of scriptural evidence.

#13: That’s a slippery slope, but I don’t believe so. I think that as long as people “confess with their mouth Jesus is Lord, and believe in their heart God raised Him from the dead, they will be saved.” I believe they must have a personal relationship with God and pursue Him with their lives.

#14: This is the formula for salvation: Belief in Jesus as the Savior. Modeling your life after his life. Continually striving to know the Trinity better.

#15: No, but I don’t know what the exact “requirement” is. To believe in Jesus, that he is the Son of God who died for my sins, and that he wants me to know him? What are the tenants that fully make someone a Christian, and do they all need to be completely believed in order to be a true believer? In one sense, maybe they do, but in a different sense, we are all, me mostly, on a path of believing to a greater extent than the day before. I believe more today than I did a year ago, but I know that a year ago I was still on this path and still fighting for the same thing. And my prayer is that 10 years down the road, I am still refining my belief and my theology, because I want it to be closer and closer to the truth and I want to know Jesus to an even greater degree than I did yesterday. I want the gap between my perspective and God’s perspective to get smaller and smaller.

#16: On a very basic level yes.

#17: No

#18: Yes. In the sense that salvation only comes through Jesus Christ, through confessing that He is Lord and believing that He raised us from the dead.
So if our view of God is wrong, then salvation couldn't be possible.
If there is an absolute truth, which I believe that there is, then it must be known to some extent to have salvation from it.

#19: I guess it depends first on how you define “correct theology”. But I have no idea.

20 Things That Christians Do In Church That Annoy Me

Hermant Mehta, an atheist, put the chance to save his soul up for auction on Ebay. He sold for 504$ and then visited between 10-15 churches. Read the article.

He wrote down his thoughts about the church services he visited.

Mehta's put up this funny and thought-provoking post(20 Things That Christians Do In Church That Annoy Me) on his blog, The Friendly Athiest.

Theology Survey (6): Common Ground

Question: Should Christian theology be about the basics – that which is common ground across denominations or religions?

#1: Theology should only be about the Holy Trinity, i.e. God as the Father, God as the Son, and God as the Holy Spirit and the Bible should be the only authority. I always ask myself “What does Jesus have to say about that?” when a theological or doctrinal issue comes up, but I never really look for the answer.
I want a first-century theology, one pure and new that emphasizes loving your neighbor as yourself. I’m kind of tired of today’s Christianity, which I feel like it’s teaching us to become bookworms and play it safe. I’m also tired of the “I’m right, you’re wrong” mentality – i.e. Brother Jed and Sister Cindy. Technically, we are right but we aren’t reflecting God’s image and helping the cause by judging openly condemning someone to Hell.

#2: Hmmm. Excellent question. Kind of, at least among Christians. But those basics ought to lead to more complex, deep, and rich theological understanding. But these basics will always have offshoots and explanations at which point there will be disagreement. As it relates to other religions: certainly not. Christian theology should be exactly that: the unique ways that Christian texts and experiences get understood and worked out. Where there is common ground with other religious perspectives (religions), this should not be understood as common ground theology so much as overlaps of understanding. But there will be marked distinctives that will give credence to the different naming of theological constructs.

#3: I don't think you can limit theology. We will always be seeking to understand and discover the God who created, and how can we do that without talking about him? The question is not how far we let theology go, but the power that said theology has over us. This again stems from the desire Jesus had for us to be unified. Let us dream about theology, let us debate theology, but let us not be torn a part by senseless theological arguments. Which begs the question what is essential? What are the basics that we must agree on? Jesus. That is no simple feat. Who was he? Why did he come? You ask if we should keep it to common ground. He is the only thing that so many hold dear. Jesus is the unifier. We all understand him in different ways, yet we all captured by his beauty, his majesty, his power. Theology has a purpose, but it will not serve to unify the entirety of the body. I don't think it should be limited to the basics, if there were such a list, but it should find it's place in community discovery.

#4: Again, I guess I feel like it comes down to salvation. If it is an issue that affects that then it is an issue to take a stand on. If it is a minor detail that doesn’t affect much, I don’t think it is worth arguing about. I guess it depends on what you call basics.

#5: The real question I see here is: what’s more important, the political (or denominational) unity of the body of Christ, or theological unity. Which is to say, is it okay to have a diversity of theologies in one church, or should they break away. I believe the ideal should be unity of the church, with one caveat. We must understand there IS one truth, and we ought to always desire it and ask that God open our hearts to it.

#6: I don’t think so, I think need to dive into things deeper. We need to get past the surface of what the bible is saying and you cannot really do that without digging deep and going past the basics

#7: I don’t think that theology should be limited to “the basics”, but I do believe that there will always be certain aspects of God that will remain a mystery until Christ returns; therefore, I think that is often hurts more than helps to “argue” over different views of theology. That being said, we are called to grow in wisdom and understanding and continually add to our learning. In addition, those who are given the gift of teaching should seek to guide and direct the children of God by the leading/teaching of the Holy Spirit; and I believe that the Spirit has a lot more to teach than “the basics”.

#8: No. Denying that there are different ideas about how some beliefs should play out in a modern context isn’t helping anyone. The God of the Bible is one who asks us to look for him and find him, who delights for all to search him out, pick his brain, and know what’s at the core of his heart.

#9: No, I think that would only cause Christianity to become “soft” so to say. We would no longer make each other stronger in the faith because there would be nothing to discuss and challenge our thinking with.

#10: Absolutely not! Theology is the study of GOD. GOD is not bound by the constraints of denominations, HIS character and nature are not different toward different groups of people (as a dispensationalist would argue). Paul makes this point very clear in both 1 Cor. 3 and Heb. 5 (Paul’s authorship is debatable). Both times the author make a clear and distinct difference between simple doctrine and complex doctrine, comparing them to milk and solid food. The Author of Hebrews offers a harsh rebuke to those who are still drinking milk… “12In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.”
Anyone living on milk is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness, Solid food if for the mature! WE must diligently query the scriptures, and be must habitually teach sound doctrine! If we do not, righteousness is unattainable!

#11: This is a hard question in that it is hard to imagine a middle ground across all denominations. Even similar Protestant traditions treat the salvation process differently.

#12: No, there are issues which God cares about that aren’t “basics only.” The reason there are divisions across denominations is because people care deeply about certain things—which isn’t a bad thing. We are given a mind to think and talk about certain things that are important to us, and I think the fact that we are given the Bible to read automatically brings up certain issues of theology that cannot be ignored. As rational creatures, we desire to reason things out and to talk about them, because I think that somewhere inside of us we know that something has to be the right answer.

#13: No, I think theology includes any and everything that involves God or any other gods.

#14: I don’t think the study of God should be that limited. Not sure that you can have spiritual growth and/or foster/encourage growth in others if you stick to just the basics. Seems like a shallow spiritual basis.

#15: This is a bit of a trick question; what do you mean by “Christian theology”? Of which Christian’s theology are we speaking?
Simultaneously, it does seem that one can create a lowest common denominator definition of what it is to be Christian. If you are asking if theology should stop there, I don’t know. Part of me says yes, there are so many questions left to answer before one can know how to live, like God’s knowledge of the future and election, and whether God can ask you to do something immoral. But part of me says no, because if we cannot come to an agreement on said subjects, then how great the danger to live life believing God’s nature to be one way while, and all the while being wrong?
Though this tension exists, I do not see the advantage in simply refusing to ask these controversial questions of theology. So my final answer to your original question is no. I do, however, think that beyond a “basic” education in Christian theology, there should be an emphasis on an education of the heart, some sort of discipleship. Then I think that there will be some who are given to study theology, others who are to serve other who…according to the gifts that have been given to them. And it is not the place of the theologian to be the one who knows more about God, but rather to be the one who is more experienced in observing how people have experienced him historically and talking about how people are experiencing him now, and in clarifying the views of those around him.

Theology Survey (5): Doing and Learning

Question: How does "doing" and "learning" in the Christian life interact? Which is Jesus more pleased by?

#1: My first reaction to this question is to say Jesus was more about the doing. He reprimanded people for knowing everything but not doing anything with it. But on the other hand, he told us to watch our doctrine closely and to not lead people astray and to teach and admonish one another. We can’t do that excellently without learning. From what I have seen, the people who go and do are the ones who end up wanting to learn more. But the reverse doesn’t seem to be so true.

#2: Well, this is a complex question. In some fashion, in order to have a system of beliefs that is distinctly Christian, everyone must begin with some sort of learning. This learning isn’t necessarily school-style learning, but more of a period of studying the concept of god/God, and coming to some sort of realization.
Once that period ends, however, it’s pretty evident throughout the Bible that action is the right response to this study and self-realization. The process is much like deciding where to go to college: at some point you have to look around at all of the schools and come to a decision about where you’re going to go, but unless you actually go there, then the whole process is pretty pointless.

#3: I think that is it important to learn as much as you can about the Lord, and you can learn by doing. He is absolutely more pleased my doing. Jesus calls us to the Great Commission, which is about spreading His word and loving His people. This is not to say He doesn’t want us to learn, but after reading scripture, I feel like He wants us to “do.” In 1 Corinthians 13:13, it says “Now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.” Love is about doing—as the old cliché goes, “love is a verb.”

#4: These should be integrated together. One happens and leads to the other and it can go both directions. Learning can lead to doing, and doing can lead to learning. Neither is more pleasing, both are necessary and appropriate responses to the call of Christ on someone. Theology should not be seen as the thing we get right, and action is where there is wiggle room.

#5: Just like the mind and heart are two in one, so is the action statement of doing vs knowledge (learning). However, I personally believe that positive doing is more beneficial than positive thinking. Sometimes our thinking, learning, meditating, whatever you want to call it, ends up sort of reaching a ‘high’ where some good can come of it, but it is never
o solidified in our character. The experiences we have, the process of trial and error through ‘doing’; growing from the positive or negative outcomes, can mold itself in my paradigm both mentally and spiritually.

#6: Doing and learning are inseparable in the Christian faith. We see this in the very foundation of our relationship with Christ; we must believe in our hearts and confess with our mouths (doing) that Christ is our Lord and savior (something we must be taught). No one can know God’s will or character fully without encountering his word (whether by reading, or hearing). Likewise, no one who’s learning about God through his word will grow unless he or she allows his heart to be transformed by the truth of the gospel and acts upon it. So, I would say Jesus is pleased by both, and both is best.

#7: I believe that doing and learning have a circular relationship. James tells us that deeds are/should be the result of our faith (which is generated by hearing (learning) about Christ). He says that faith without action is dead. I believe that Jesus is concerned with the heart (motives) of the person; therefore, I think that He is more pleased with the “doing” if it is accompanied by a pure heart. But I also believe that there is something to be said for “doing” that results in “learning”. Oswald Chambers wrote, “when you know you should do something and you do it, immediately you know more”; which, I guess, eludes to the fact that you had to learn something that you should do, but I think it also speaks to the point that often in the “doing” we also learn.

#8: There needs to be a balance of doing right in response to knowing the truth of the Gospel. Correct understanding of your relationship to/with God changes the motivation behind your actions. When you believe your salvation is dependent on your good works you may do the right thing for the wrong reason. However, knowing your salvation depends on God and the work of Christ on the cross motivates you do what it takes to bring others closer to Christ so that they may also be saved.

#9: Learning and doing should balance each other, and I feel should be the most vital, and maybe the only, components to Christianity. I’ve learned so much about my faith and myself since becoming a Young Life leader. I’ve also learned a lot about my strengths, weaknesses, obedience and faith that would’ve never came up if I wasn’t a leader. I’m glad to have learned what I have now during this life stage, which I will use as I grow old. I’ve realized more from being on the battlefield, aka the mission field, than steering clear from it...
I feel that the “doing” is like a “test.” If all you do is learn, what good is it? Your goal of that learning should be to pass the test, but you’ll never know how well you did if you never take that test.

#10: Belief is a lifestyle and not simply a truth in the mind. If we want to simplify things, as I believe Jesus came to do, we might say the following, “Know to the best of your ability that Jesus is the Savior of the World sent by God and model your life after his.” Jesus is not more pleased by either. These 2 actions of “doing” and “learning” must be combined into 1 action we call “belief”.

#11: There must be both, and they necessarily must interact. I’m frustrated because I don’t know what this balance is, but I know he is pleased by both. “Doing” is essential in the Christian life; our works do show our faith—our faith is dead without works. But you cannot possibly know what to “do” if you are not learning, if you are not growing, not seeing more and more the character of the Lord. You don’t know what it means to love, what it looks like to live in community, without first having the examples that we are provided with. If you don’t know and see the aspects of God’s love, then you can’t love someone as God would. If you don’t recognize the goodness of creation and the image of God in the world, you won’t treat it as if it is being redeemed. The point of the “learning” is that it will affect us. It should change the way we see the world as God’s perspective and our perspective become more and more alike and closer together. This doesn’t happen if we don’t engage in learning—seeking out truer and truer answers and conforming more to his likeness.

#12: I don't know that these two can be differentiated. That is, by learning I mean the taking in of knowledge that affects, and changes. Learning is doing. I believe specifically in the Christian life that we learn by doing. They are completely intertwined. How often did Jesus' teachings challenge people to action, to move, to change. Even if that was a change of heart. Jesus taught his disciples by pushing them into action. He urges us to be a people who learn by asking, seeking, and knocking. Learning by action. I think he is pleased with the outcome of the action, which is learning. But on the other hand I could say he is pleased with the outcome of learning, which is action. I don't see Jesus as being limited in how he understood growth in the Christian life. Perhaps neither should we.

#13: Your actions as a Christian are defined by what you have learned. Additionally, you learn by doing as well. They are completely interconnected. As far as the Christian life goes I don’t know that you can divorce them. I do suppose that you can learn something and not do it, which is sin. Jesus would be more pleased by action.

#14: Learning is, depending on who you ask, more of a Greek imposition on Christianity than a Christian doctrine, as the Hebrews were historically doers, at least in the days of the fathers of the faith. At the same time, Jesus was incredibly learned of the scriptures, though he is a special case; he may have had to learn them: “…and the word was with God, and the word was God.” (John 1, my emphasis) But, on the other hand, Jesus’ disciples were not the most learned of men and the Pharisees were very well educated. But, on yet another hand, Paul was very learned and in the end it served him.
As far as the interaction of the two, this is perhaps a bit of a loaded question, as no one will say that they just do things in the Christian life without learning anything. But I do not have a definitive answer; is doing without learning like shooting without aiming? Or is that analogy missing the guidance of the Holy Spirit?
I do not think that Christians were ever meant to be men in rooms reading all day, contemplating, interacting with no one. But perhaps there is a balance of the two, some very much on the doing side, others heavy on the learning side.

Theology Survey (4): Division

Question: What are the cases in which it is ok for theology to cause division among Christians?

#1: At the risk of being ambiguous, it is ok when there is stark disagreement over essential doctrines (note: there aren’t very many “essential” doctrines – e.g. deity of Christ, authority, not inerrancy, of scripture, etc.). To say it another way, when a group decides to embrace theological perspectives that veer from historically orthodox Christianity, it seems to me there is a case for division. However this division need not be enmity.

#2: I don’t believe that the study of God should ever separate us as a body of believers. Now it is ok to disagree on elements of theology, but never division within the church. Now, we see that it has happened and it will continue to happen. I think that there will be division until Jesus comes back.

#3: No, but seriously, I’m sure there is a case for almost every circumstance for division. The issue of salvation would be one of the biggies in my mind. Like, how someone is saved, where their security in salvation lies, and that stuff.

#4: I cannot think of any instance in which division is acceptable. Paul warns us to not be like children and test all things by the scripture, and also warns us against false teachers (1 Tim. 1:3-4, 6:1-5) All teachers will be held accountable by God, and Paul says only those who wish to deprive others of truth cause friction and arguments. Because I am not God, I cannot always tell who is right and who is wrong, and thus who is causing division, so yet again I hold all things to the Word’s doctrine (1 Tim. 1:3-4) So I would say there is never division in the truth, and someone has it, and to stand in opposition to it is sinful.

#5: I think that because we are not God, and because we can never fully understand him, there are probably going to be inconsistencies in beliefs among Christians. People can interpret the bible in different ways on certain issues… even if they disagree with one another. Obviously this division would not be ideal, because it can cause tensions and what not, but I think it’s pretty inevitable.

#6: First of all, I feel that it is necessary to make the distinction between “division” and “disagreement”. Disagreements often arise as a result of differing views and/or different levels of understanding; whereas, I think that division is often the result of pride and arrogance. Disagreements are inevitable; as people seek to learn and grow in wisdom and understanding there will be people at different stages of wisdom/understanding. Disagreements are necessary in the face of differing views where there is a right and wrong answer. Agreeing simply for the sake of peace and tolerance is often harmful when it comes to theology. That being said, I believe that it must be agreed that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22) and that whoever believes in Him has eternal life (John 3:15)….I’m still trying to figure out all of the “non-negotiable” aspects of Christianity.

#7: Division should be the last resort. The times when the conflict is about style or matter of opinion shouldn’t divide, though they often do. The issues of doctrine where scripture is unclear shouldn’t divide, but rather all parties should be humble enough to say, “I don’t know the exact answer let’s continue to seek God’s guidance on how to think rightly together”. The issues that scripture clearly speaks to will cause division if one party’s belief is in direct opposition and they are unyielding to the scripture. Heresy cannot be tolerated. Every attempt should be made to win over the opposition to believe the truth of scripture.

#8: It is obviously okay for people to have different ideas about non-essential issues. On essential issues, however, it’s not okay. Realistically, if a group of faithful people cannot agree to some basic ideas and facts found in the Bible¬—including God’s power over all things, the deity of the historical person of Jesus Christ and his defeat of death, every person’s addiction to things that are harmful and are the cause for God’s sadness—then I think it would be worth their while to examine whether their system of beliefs was actually distinctly Christian to start.

#9: I think division is okay when it does not destroy our purpose to glorify God by loving Him above all and loving our neighbors as ourselves (including non-Christians and Christians who differ from us). As long as we are willing to discuss differences and still love each other despite those divisions, people outside of the faith will see that and God will be glorified through that.

#10: I honestly don’t know when it’s OK for theology to create division because I don’t know enough about theology. I feel that it was OK for Martin Luther to break away from Rome because the Catholic Church became too corrupt. I think there should be no divisions within Protestantism because they’re basically all the same – i.e. they’re not Catholic.

#11: I feel that a division is qualified when it takes place over something that is clearly taught in scripture (such as the Trinity, Baptisim, Election, etc…). I also feel that any division taking place over a teaching that directly contradicts scripture, demeans the blood of CHRIST, or slanders the character of GOD is warranted. However, Scripture also tells us of how to approach the subject and what types of attitude to have (1 Pet. 3:15, 2 Tim. 2:25, and Gal. 6:1)

#12: When the controlling portion of the Church is unwilling to reform its practices in an effort to attain true Christianity (i.e. Luther and Catholic Church)

#13: On matters central to the faith.

#14: Jesus prayed for us to be unified. His last prayer for his disciples, for us, was that we may be one, as he and the father are one. If we are going to be followers of Jesus, and that is what a Christian is, we are to be unified. Theology and doctrine have been dividing for a long time. Jesus leaves, and people start gravitating towards certain teachers. "I follow Paul's teachings." "Oh I'm more of an Apollos fan." "Yeah well I follow Peter." Paul saw this just years after Jesus left. What did he say? "Who are these men? Let us all follow Christ."

#15: I don't really think that there is ever a reason for there to be division among Christians. I think the only grounds for division are if people aren't following Christ anymore, abiding by God's word, believing that God raised Christ from the dead, and confessing Him as the one and only Savior. But then I guess they wouldn't be Christians...
I guess the word division is pretty strong, like it definitely has a bad connotation. And when you think realistically, I don't think people could really function without denominations, like I think our own pride and sin and desire to be right and all those things make denominations. And it's much easier to come together with people who believe generally the same thing as you do. (However I would argue that most people sitting together in one congregation don't have completely consistent theology with each other.) But at the same time I think if there are people in the congregation who are doing things that aren't biblical, ie selling indulgences, then that would be a legit reason to break away...

#16: When someone or denomination has misused or misinterpreted the word of God to witness or teach others false things about God.

#17: Forced belief is perhaps the most certain way to prevent real belief. If division is the cost of freedom of belief, so be it. What is a shame is that there is not more ecumenical conversation. When humans can come to know perfectly, and share this knowledge perfectly, at that point division will be immoral.

Theology Survey (3): Denominations

Question: Is the fact that there are different denominations in the church a good thing or a bad thing?

#1: Assuming you are referring to Christianity…Good and bad. Bad, when the division is genuinely divisive: i.e. one group asserts themselves as having the final word on truth and the superior understanding such that there is nothing to be gained by being in a different denomination. Good, when historically orthodox Christianity is embraced, differences within that swath appreciated (and discussed), and when we realize that we may just have things to learn from each other. In terms of the main threads of Christianity, Roman Catholicism, Protestantism/evangelicalism, and Eastern Orthodoxy, I hold that each uniquely offers (with strengths and weaknesses) a voice that when joined with the others creates a weaving that better represents God’s truth and grace in its bigness and diversity. Yet, it is necessary for us to be in dialogue with other streams of Christianity so that we will understand our differences as well as see how the differences actually make a difference.

#2
With different opinions, different perceptions, different ‘eye glasses’ that millions of people look through, you will have different religions formed. The complexity of creation entails inevitable religious differences. This idea also effects denominations within a religion. Baptist, Methodist, presbo’s, non-denom, Lutheran, catholic, whateva, all have common ground with God. In Biblical doctrine, within Gods spoken word, people argue over the different ‘translations’ and ‘meaning of the sentence’ where denominations form. I can see that the one elementary truth, Jesus Christ, has been manipulated and formed in MANdates by religious authority over the centuries. In the Bible, there was one church. I personally believe there should be one church. Now, I think that man can, in all his effort, put a complete and total end to racism, but with the complexity of creation, I believe it is impossible. So, to answer the question is it ‘good or bad’, I would say that it isn’t good or bad that we have different denominations, it is just something that we may have to accept.
Furthermore, the denomination “Presbyterian” refers to an eldership overseeing the church, I am (will be officially) a member of the church, which is simply a label put on a community of common believers with a system of checks and balances. There’s nothing wrong with that, there is no way of losing my salvation by the community’s beliefs. Therefore, I don’t see the other denominations as being in the wrong, unless they do not teach the truth of Jesus. They may just have different structures that oversee its foundation. Democracy is ok with me, I’m ok with her.

#3
Denominations come from human division and disagreement over theological and doctrinal belief. I couldn’t with a clear conscious say that divisions of any sort are good, because Paul clearly commands against them (1 Cor. 1:10). That said, it is also imperative to have a clear, and true understanding of the doctrine presented in the gospel. I can’t say I’m wise enough to know the solution to this paradox.

#4
o I think some aspects are good, but others are not. Some good aspects are that there can be different doctrines, and people can find churches that fit to what they believe on specific issues. The bad part is that it really causes division among believers. People associate certain stereotypes with certain denominations and that is not good, because we are called to be united under Christ, and by being so separate, I do not feel like we are acting as one.

#5
o I think that I teeter between indifference to the idea of different denominations within the church and being troubled by this division. I think that it may be a natural separation between people with varied beliefs for the purpose of learning and living in a way that is most in-line with what they believe to be true of God. But I do not believe that God ultimately wants any form of division in the church. On the one hand, if someone or some church is leading people away from the truth, it would be devastating to allow this to continue for the sake of “keeping the peace”. But on the other hand, I do not think that all differences in beliefs should be a reason for segregating the children of God. I think that as human beings continue to seek the truth that is yet to be fully revealed, there will inevitably be people that are earnestly seeking to follow in footsteps of Christ that have certain wrong beliefs. By God’s grace and His immeasurable patience, we will continue to learn more about Him and “be able to test and approve what [His] will is” …fine-tune our theology, if you will.

#6
I think there are positives and negatives. Denominations carry with them different styles and flavors that make the Church at large a more interesting and diverse place. However, sometimes these differences cause division among Christians. Things that are doctrinally insignificant create walls between different groups so that a congregation or denomination is isolated. The church is a body and we are supposed to rely on one another and isolation is entirely against that.

#7
If by church we’re talking about the universal Church, the company of all people who claim to live according to the standards established by God throughout the Bible, then it’s a bad thing. If, however, we’re addressing the “church,” the company of all people who go to a physical church building once a week, then it’s not necessarily a bad thing. As long as there are these groups of people who go to a physical building, a church, but have no real grasp of the veracity and demands of the Bible, then it’s okay that the greater Church, the company of all people faithful to the one true God, don’t want to associate with the other group, which is defined by buildings and has little to do with this idea of a universal group of faithful people.

#8
Denominations come from our inability to fully understand God; so as a result of our imperfect nature, our ideas about God are also imperfect and people view things differently. I don’t know if it is generally good or bad, but just the way it is. I guess since we were not created to fully understand God and His reasoning on this earth it is a good thing, but it is bad when it divides Christians against each other.

#9
Denominations come from sin. There are a few exceptions but for the most part, religions shouldn’t have denominations. People break off from churches because they want to believe their own beliefs, not God’s.
Last week, a friend talked about division in the church. He described that being a member of a church is like being married. You don’t divorce your wife if she disagrees with you on an issue, so you shouldn’t leave a church. You learn and compromise from these disagreements, which make your marriage (church) better. God is your focus when you work out the kinks, while you are the focus when you leave.

#10
I feel that denominations come from people seeking fellowship with others who share common beliefs…OR with people who share a common “Sin-Nature”. There are many groups who gather together because they share the same struggle with the same sin, and do not want to feel guilty or convicted about their continued defiance in the face of an almighty GOD. So they meet in the safety of a group who jettisons said particular sin from the group…pacifying and appeasing their conscience, while quenching the HOLY SPIRIT!
The questions as to whether they are good or bad depends on the extreme to which they are taken and the grounds for which they are established. There are many denominations who differ only on a few points of methodology, while other’s have extremely worldviews.
Paul promises in 1 Cor. 11:19 that… “For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.” Factions translates in the Greek as G139 – Choices, opinions, sects. Paul promises that there must be differences so that the theology and doctrine of those who are correct will be noticed. Yet he also warns of factions in 2 Cor. 12:20… “I fear that there may be quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder.” as well as in Gal. 5:20 where Paul includes factions in the acts of the sinful nature… “The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.” These versus create quite the paradox. I, however, feel that denominations create an environment that is too often conducive with arguments and unedifying debates, resulting in a spirit of judgment and condemnation toward other believers.

#11
Generally speaking, I find denominations to be a bad thing. This is because I’ve read scripture that says we should be like-minded as Christians, and I think dividing ourselves up based on doctrine is harmful to the sense of community that Christians are called to have. After talking with people of other denominations or churches than myself, I have sometimes felt that we almost don’t worship the same God because of views are do different. It’s hard to connect with a person who has different ideals about God than yourself, and that’s why I see the use of denominations, but I can’t find the answer to what to do about being like-minded since there are so many different interpretations about scripture.

#12
Denominations come from disagreements within the Church. They are bad things in that they are the result of the Church refusing to reason with and love its family.

#13
It is a good thing provided we are recognizing that the church is still one body, and that all Christians are united on that front. But I think it can be a bad thing because of the hostile division that it can cause, and the way that we see people in other denominations. I think sometimes it can be easy to forget that we are all one body, and it may give us reasons to treat each other without respect, even with less respect than we would to someone who isn’t a Christian. But I also think people need to be able to discern for themselves, they need to think and learn, and see differences in what others believe in order to decide for themselves what they believe to be true. Comparisons can be a good thing in this situation, and to see the differences in theology will hopefully cause people to think more deeply about truth, and what that really means. If there was only one denomination, would there be too much controversy and disagreement within the church, on things that aren’t crucial issues to the faith? The destruction of this would be far greater than having different denominations. We are created free, and in that we are free to choose what we deem to be right. But at the same time, there has to be an absolute truth, something that is absolutely right, and there needs to be lines drawn. What are the requirements of a certain church or a certain denomination, what makes you included? I don’t know what these should be.

#14
I think there were probably a few main ones around the time of the reformation (Calvin…Luther…Anabaptists and Baptists). I can’t remember when Methodists came around. I think they are both good and bad. Good in the sense that there are a lot of aspects of God that different denominations pick up….but bad because they then pick up heresies along the way.

#15
Denominations come from a difference in how we understand scripture, God, and the church. Denominations come from a lack of understanding, and a mass of pride. "I'm right, your wrong." "Let's start our own church so we can be right in our own little bubble." Sadly it's become a norm. And even more sadly people don't understand how close they are to one another. "You believe in infinite baptism? I don't." These are things that separate us. Really? What does that really have to do with how I understand Jesus?
Maybe denomintations aren't completely bad though. Perhaps they are a reflection of us. A reflection of the body. We are all different. A lot of us experience the Lord in different ways. All these division give a lot of different people a plethora of ways to worship their creator.

#16
Denominations come from Martin Luther. Ha.

I guess they come from people disagreeing on different issues in the church, and people wanting to split away from others who don't agree.

It makes sense to me why they exist, and I think in the beginning the split from the Catholic Church was based in good reasoning because it was calling out something that was Biblically wrong. However, I think that denominations are generally a bad thing. I don't think that the Church as in the Body of Christ was set up to be split and fractioned and all over the place, but instead was meant to be one unit, a body, working and functioning together.

#17
I don’t think divisions amongst God’s children is ever a good thing, but I do think it is an inevitable part of being human, part of our nature as sinners.

#18
Neither. It is a product of the imperfect ability to know what is true all of the time, which is inherent in postlapsarian humans. It is only bad insofar as the Fall is bad. That Christians today have the freedom to believe differently one to another is, in my personal opinion, good.

Theology Survey (2): Associations with Theology

As I said in the last post, we are going to be putting up some responses to a survey about theology up on the blog in the next few days. I think this will make for interesting reading, both for the thoughtfulness of the answers and the variety of perspectives we received back. Here is the first question and responses:

Question: "What associations come into your mind when you hear the words 'doctrine' and 'theology'?"

#1: "I associate confusion and division. I think of controversial topics that can be discussed within the church and Christian community. The only things I’ve ever really known of theology have been very intellectual and were not usually properly taught to me. I feel like a lot of the time, people can become negatively divided over tense issues and can turn it into being who is right about this, and not truly trying to seek God’s heart in the issue. People are taking pride in their knowledge and not in what God has done."

#2: "System of beliefs about God, the world, and life in general."

#3: "Stuffy libraries at Covenant Seminary and dusty books."

#4: "I think that within the context of the Christian Church, these words have both gained a really academic feel, although in a practical sense, they are very simple ideas. Theology is simply the study of god/God, and doctrine is a system or list of beliefs about god/God."

#5: "I feel a negative connotation concerning “doctrine” and “theology” because, frankly, when I hear these words I feel that the issue of missions and making new disciples is ignored... I would choose “evangelizing” – showing love to the lost, see Matthew 28: 18-20 – over learning and discussing topics, such as theology and doctrine... I feel that I don’t know enough about theology and doctrine to have authority to disciple to people who don’t know it."

#6: "Books; an underlying set of beliefs that guide everything else that is done, whether in a church or in an individual. I think of the foundation for our lives (or what should be the foundation)."

#7: "I won’t lie…the first thing I think of are old dusty seminaries. But if I think about it more...words like…truth, knowledge, understanding, study, hard work, life, freedom….come to mind."

#8: "When I hear the words theology and doctrine I think of seminary. I just think that seminary is the place that 'advanced Christians' go to further enhance their knowledge of things such as theology and doctrine. I know this isn't true but I feel that in some weird way seminary is where people go to dig deeper and to learn these deeper issues."

#9: "Theology to me is more of a way of thinking. When I think of theology I think of ideas, conversations, interpretations and more of a loosely defined set of beliefs. Doctrine to me is more of a set of beliefs. I think of something like a list of rules or concrete points about what someone believes or subscribes to."

#10: "When I hear the words theology and doctrine I think of the core values and beliefs that I hold to be true. It’s the foundation of my faith. When I start to doubt or struggle with something, remembering my theology and doctrine is what brings me back to Christ."

#11: "My first association is with books. I don’t know why because theology is something that is in us. But I associate those words with being boring and dry. Something that people like to discuss but never really get anywhere with it or have an impact on the kingdom."

#12: "There are two ways to go here with theology and doctrine. One way to go is that these terms point to hardline truth statements that cease thought by giving the final answer to religious questions. The second way, and the way that theology and doctrine ought to function is that they become statements of understanding about religious questions that do not stop at themselves but provide a framework for thinking about lots of other questions – human questions that are broadly shared. Dorothy Sayers talks about this latter sense whereby the “dogma is the drama”, which is to say dogma (i.e. doctrine), along with our imagination, give us dramatic ways of seeing and of making sense of other questions. It helps us to put our thinking to use in dealing with our problems and questions."

Theology Survey (1): Introduction

In recent weeks kind, thoughtful friends have given their responses to a survey about their thoughts and opinions of theology.

Here are a few of the questions:

• Is there a positive or negative connotation associated with theology?
• What is the use of theology in your day-to-day life?
• Is the fact that there are different denominations in the church a good thing or a bad thing?
• What are the cases in which it is ok for theology to cause division among Christians?
• Should Christian theology be about the basics - that which is common ground across denominations or religions?
• How does "doing" and "learning" in the Christian life interact? What is Jesus more pleased by?
• Does God want us to go to seminary?
• Is correct theology necessary for salvation?
• What did Jesus think about theology?
• What is the difference, in your mind, between Jesus and Religion

Look for the responses to these questions to appear on this blog over the course of the next few days.

Busyness and the Soul: A Professor Writes About His Students

Mark Edmundson, professor of English at the University of Virginia, writes about his observations of his students busy lives and how their "spectacular hunger for life makes then radically vulnerable."

A quote:
"In skating over thin ice," Emerson says, "our safety is in our speed." But sometimes, like it or not, we're slowed down or stopped, and then trouble begins. Last term a young woman, an art-history and commerce major in one of my classes, stopped by my office. She's a marvelous student; I've never taught anyone who could read poetry with much more subtlety and feeling. She was pale, sleepless; her teeth were chattering softly. I invited her to sit down and then asked some questions. "How many courses are you taking?" Five, no six, seven. "Audits?" Yes, one. "A thesis?" Almost done: She planned to knock out 40 pages over the weekend, but now her father, whom she clearly adored, was sick, and she'd have to go home and then how could she. …

"It's too much," I said. "What?" She hadn't heard me exactly. "What you're doing? It's too much." And then came — as it almost always does when I say these words, or something like them — a feeling of great relief. Someone with a claim to authority has said that it's OK to be tired, OK to ease up. OK to rest. When my students crash on their own, they crash like helicopters dropping straight out of the sky. They're often unaware that they're on the verge of trouble. They're doing what they are supposed to do, what their parents want, with all those courses and the multiple majors, and they haven't got much of any resources to look inside and to see that matters are out of joint — no one has thought to help them acquire those.

TED Talks: Microfinance and Thoughts on How to Fight Poverty

Jacqueline Novogratz talks about the work she has done in creating real change in poverty in Africa and around the world. Watch the video here.

Quote from her lecture:
"We so often don't realize what our action and inactions does to people we think we will never see and never know."

"4 billion people on Earth make less than $4 a day."

"A couple of principles [of microfinance]: Build small, make it infinitely expandable, and affordable to the poor."

[about Malaria bednets] "$5 save a life. Malaria is a disease that kills 1-3 million people a year...We can send people to the moon, we can see if there is life on Mars, why can't we get $5 nets to 500 million people?"

Feature: Why Poor Nations Remain Poor

Wayne Grudem offers his thoughts on how a biblical worldview affects economic development and how that had contributed to the history of economic growth globally.

Thoughts about Jamaica and Home

I just spent a week in Harmons, Jamaica building houses, hauling piles of rock up hills, getting to know Jamaicans and the American who were with me. T. S. Eliot was right when he said, "...the end of all our exploring, will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." I have felt that effect a bit since coming home. It's ironic to learn about America by learning about Jamaica, but that's the way it goes. So I wanted to put some thoughts down about Jamaica, America, and an incredible week.

• On the flight down I sat next to a man named Ken who told me that he is away from his family traveling 40 weeks out of the year. I looked out the window and was astounded at the beauty of the earth from above and I asked him if in flying so much seeing that beauty ever got old. He leaned over me and looked out the window and said, "Yeah, I've seen more beautiful things than that," then he paused and added, "but it's all beautiful if you can learn to see it right." If there was a theme of my time in Jamaica it was this. We were surrounded by Jamaica's tropical beauty staring at us out of every window. I saw beauty in the Jamaicans, in the hospitality they extended to us, in the work we did together, in the wonderful sense of community they share. I saw beauty in an infirmary we traveled to one day. This place was described to us as "the worst nursing home in the states multiplied by 1,000". When we arrived people were half-clothed, laying about in their own mess, barely able to pull themselves upright, see, move, or speak. We 24 Americans began to wander around the Infirmary and people would call us aside and pull us near them and asked to be read to. I could not help thinking that beyond the mess my eyes can see on the outside of this person is a human being and then I tried to offer them the simple grace of human touch, or a smile, or a listening ear.

• One road runs through the valley of Harmons. All the houses are strung up the hillside with paths leading back to the road. Walking down the road you see Jamaicans standing on the side of the road or walking down along it. Driving down the road you hear all the drivers honking at each other, not because they are angry, but to say hello because they know each others names. If you have extra seats, pick someone up and give them a ride a bit further down the road. I couldn't help compare the topography of the culture of the village with our culture. Harmons is literally a valley, but it is also a valley culturally, with all the people tending downhill towards one another, sharing common space and common lives. Whereas walking around campus you see half the people with little white wires sticking out of their ears or cell phones in front of their faces and their own private smiles on. I wonder if we are losing our common world in ways that are not good for our souls. If Harmons is a valley, American culture is a sphere, with every individual facing the danger of sliding away from every other individual if they are not careful. A large degree of shared life is a common starting place for culture in Harmons, but here we have to fight for it. When we come into a circle of people or a place where this is not the case, where people have made some change and are living life along different lines than the sphere it is an oases and an exception. But surely the gospel calls us to live a different way than the trend of our culture. The gospel leans us toward one another, binds us together and makes us a people radically for one another. Yet it is so easy to simply pick up our feet and let the current carry us somewhere else, and this should make us wary.

• Happiness is about being filled, but joy involves emptiness. There were moments of joy in Jamaica, but it was mixed in with some small pinch of sorrow. Sometimes it came in the form of a longing for home, for food, or for rest after a long, tiring day. Whatever it was the joy came in the context of weariness, loneliness, or pain and in those moments the small, simple graces the God gives were big enough to be enough. This is different from the happiness I pursue at home. At home I have enough control over my life to chase down and eliminate pain and loneliness and boredom and longing at the first sign of them. The cup stays full, but I think I might be missing something in it never being empty. Perhaps this is what St. Francis of Assisi meant when he said, "God is always trying to give us good things, only our hands are too full to receive them." I met a man named Peter who was barely able to raise himself from his bed. His arms and legs don't work. He sat out side and someone had put a tarp up in front of him to block the sun from the little spot he sat all day long. Other than that, there were few of the comforts that inundate my life. When he saw me walking toward him he started to laugh and smile and make small sounds of happiness, showing all the joy that his body would let him show. I sat down next to him and he stretched out his hand. It meant so much to him to have me simply touch him. He motioned to the Bible in my hand and worked to get the words Psalms 23 out of his broken mouth. As I flipped through the Bible and read it to him the promises asleep on its pages woke up and chimed. I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever. Come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest. In my Fathers house there are many rooms, I go to prepare a place for you. None who wait on the Lord will be put to shame. His sounds of joy punctuated every verse...